I figured now was as good a time as any to start an original and controversial topic. I don't know about you, but as of late I have been getting more and more irked by the classic student filmmaking mentality plaguing so many up-and-coming filmmakers (including some on this site who will remain nameless).

Anyway, my problem is the many filmmakers that naively and arrogantly think that they are, without a doubt, the next big thing. In their mind, they don't need film school. Because hey, Tarantino did fine without it, so why can't we? They have never even considered that they possibly are not the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe I'm a bit of a realist and pessimist, but can't people wake up and consider that maybe, just maybe, they might not end winning Oscars, and quit pretending that they will? Is everyone that insecure?

Another beef I have is with some of the connotations of responses made on this website. I won't name any particular examples, or any particular users, but on more than one occasion I have come on here, and their have been posts by new users. Innocent, knew soldiers in the filmmaking army, who want nothing but an unbiased, clear answer/explanation to his/her problem/query. But we can't even give them that, can we? Instead, we give a response that, though sometimes answering the question, is laced with chauvinism and belittlement of this newbie to flaunt our (and I use "our" generally) high held superior knowledge of all things film.

Call me a disturber of fecal matter, call me a noob (after all, I have less than 100 posts...), but as a student filmmaker I am almost disgusted at the reputation that seems to come with that title nowadays: a closed minded kid with a grossly high held self opinion. I'm not saying everyone is like this, and a little competition between student filmmakers is healthy, but people need to wake up and realize that their chances of reaching stardom is slim. Spare us the excessive flaunting of your dream. We all have the same one.

This doesn't mean you should damper your hopes, because a few people will reach this pinnacle, most likely. But student filmmakers need to drop the mentality that they are the best, and everyone else is inferior.

quote:

I figured now was as good a time as any to start an original and controversial topic.

I havent figured out what you think is "controversial" about the topic you presented. But I will say:

I am sure there are a handful of people that will be able to make it into the film industry by themselves, without the help and support of other people or a film-related degree. But the majority of people that make it into the industry do so because of various contacts they have made in film school. Its very naive to think you can do such an accomplishment on your own, but im sure its possible.

Controversial – adj- Of, producing, or marked a dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views

I think it’s safe to say that opposing views about this topic exist, which will hopefully surface in a debate(or public dispute).

I think it's kind of necessary to have this sort of mentality, when you are so far away from achieving such a dream, if you indeed want to be successful. Yes it's kind of a delusional way of thinking, and I think most of us know that our chances are incredibly slim deep down inside, but hell we still need something to keep the competitive drive and passion fresh and at its strongest. I do agree that young(or old) filmmakers should not be so snobbish, & closeminded. But being consciously delusionally confident is kind of a must. I mean when I go out there and make a video movie, I have this mentality: 'Let's ****ing make this the best movie ever, but if it ends up sucking then let's make it the best ****ing worst movie ever'


Also, not all people can afford to go to film schools, but hell they will probably argue that film school isn't for everyone. That some people will be better off learning everything by themselves. Will they be successful? Maybe. Maybe not.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FashtheStampede,

i think without that mentality you dont stand a chance. sure lets enter the film industry thinking were gonna fail. why not some optimism?

I'm in complete agreement with you on these issues Stu. I have been slightly irked by these kinds of things lately.

quote:

Anyway, my problem is the many filmmakers that naively and arrogantly think that they are, without a doubt, the next big thing. In their mind, they don't need film school. Because hey, Tarantino did fine without it, so why can't we? They have never even considered that they possibly are not the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe I'm a bit of a realist and pessimist, but can't people wake up and consider that maybe, just maybe, they might not end winning Oscars, and quit pretending that they will? Is everyone that insecure?

Another beef I have is with some of the connotations of responses made on this website. I won't name any particular examples, or any particular users, but on more than one occasion I have come on here, and their have been posts by new users. Innocent, knew soldiers in the filmmaking army, who want nothing but an unbiased, clear answer/explanation to his/her problem/query. But we can't even give them that, can we? Instead, we give a response that, though sometimes answering the question, is laced with chauvinism and belittlement of this newbie to flaunt our (and I use "our" generally) high held superior knowledge of all things film.

Call me a disturber of fecal matter, call me a noob (after all, I have less than 100 posts...), but as a student filmmaker I am almost disgusted at the reputation that seems to come with that title nowadays: a closed minded kid with a grossly high held self opinion. I'm not saying everyone is like this, and a little competition between student filmmakers is healthy, but people need to wake up and realize that their chances of reaching stardom is slim. Spare us the excessive flaunting of your dream. We all have the same one.

So, what exactly is the "right" or "best" or "better" mentality then? Should we all be equally humble, like say those people who win an award and then say it's not about competition (Jim Jarmusch, Sean Penn, this one's aimed at you)?

Indeed. That's exactly the kind of overbearing mentality you need to get rid of. My bandmates would sometimes talk of hitting it big, and I'd have to dumb down our position for them, and remind them that we're the smallest fish in the biggest pond, and all that. I'm sure it takes amazing talent and the right connections to make it big time. Heck, I won't even pretend to know the steps to become the next Spielberg or Thelma Schoonmaker. Consider all the bands in the world and then look at how many've made it. I'm sure this proportion is the same in the film world.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: funkbomb,

I think what you say holds some water Stu Marks, but not everyone is about the fame. I'm more about finding myself and putting my visions in somethign that someone can view for their own pleasure. Those that think they are going to be a the next best thing should have already relized that they didn't need film school to get that type of success. Quentin is an EXTREMELY smart guy, watch the Resevoir Dogs special edition extra features. Anyway, I do my best to give info that could help a director and those that bash just plain suck. So which person will you be? Then just worry about that.

quote:

Originally posted by Pictovision Productions:
i think without that mentality you dont stand a chance. sure lets enter the film industry thinking were gonna fail. why not some optimism?

I didn't say you shouldn't have optimism. But I think it should be somewhat quiet. I'm sick and tired of the kind of filmmaker that believes without a doubt that they are the next best thing, and spares no expense in letting everybody else know.

I totally agree with you on this topic. Most kids WILL realize that they are not the next big thing after 2-3 years of filmschool (when they actually have to make a real shortfilm). Also, they will realize that they MIGHT be the next big thing, extremely talented...but thats not enough yet to make it to the academy awards

The thing that's funny is, getting into hollywood or whatnot without going to filmmschool (even when you do too) is all about being at the right place at the right time. On top of that you have to have talent too. So just thinking that you're going to make it big by making some low-budget feature is really pretty much far-fetched. But on the other hand you need to keep your head up and hope for the best. Just because you're not in Hollywood doesn't mean anything. I'd rather just make movies for fun then endure half the crap that most people go through with Hollywood.

quote:

I'd rather just make movies for fun then endure half the crap that most people go through with Hollywood.

I'd rather make movies for the fun of it than endure half that crap the comes OUT of Hollywood

Seriously though, my comment actually reflects a part of the said "mentality." Many of us like to consistently, and unconditionally bash Hollywood, when in fact it's not all crap, and it is perhaps the most successful industry of all time.

I don't actually agree with the typical "screw hollywood! I'm doing funky indies" mantra. If I were in the right place at the right time, and made it big I'd do Hollywood, but I'd do good Oscar season Hollywood and not the garbage that is the majority of their export.

I think the film industry just filters out those who are actually good. It takes persistance and confidence to get in so I think it's not a bad mentality. It's not acting self centered, it's just a general sense of fortitude. We don't say we're better than all those out there, we just say we want to aim for the highest quality.

As for people belittling newcomers, that's not true at all. Newcomers do come to ask questions but eventually realize they can answer questions too. Newcomers are just naive and shy so it seems that way.

Nah, there are people here who jump all over the newbies and attack their reasons rather than answering their needs.

"I'm more about finding myself and putting my visions in somethign that someone can view for their own pleasure."

I compeletely agree and think anyone who wants to get into film shouldn't be doing it to get the fame. We should be here to make something we're proud of and want to show to others. If others like it, that's awesome. But pleasing others shouldn't be the means to an end of fame. If people hate your film, but you feel it's something important... there are bound to be a few others out there that your work means something to.

I'm a firm believer in the quote:

"If you shoot for the stars you might just hit the roof..."

"The next big thing" mentality, I believe it gives Student Filmmakers enough self confidence, albeit a little arrogant, it gives them the ability to proceed with somewhat more controversial ideals, believing that they can achieve anything. Even if they are talentless, this quote and belief can give them the drive to succeed. I also believe student filmmakers, some atleast should spread their beliefs of this, because if you convince enough people that you are the next big thing, then you're the next big thing. And even if you can only convince some close friends, and not the whole world, then you've gained support, and you know people can believe in you.

First off ego is energy, so belittling arrogance is pointless because an ego driven person will dismiss the negative strain of Stu's original post. I know I did.

I've run into both types the "newbie with all the answers" and the "crusty old veteran" who wants to tell everyone "how it is." I'll stick with the newbie everydamn day.

When it's all said and done your work is the only thing that proves your worth as a filmmaker. So Stu, spend a little more time on your own work instead of putting people down for being overzealous.

Plus there's nothing worse than a self-hating student filmmaker. I personally don't think student filmmakers have a "bad name" as you propose. When I think of a student filmmaker I think of some one who has the guts to attempt one of the most difficult artistic mediums. There are enough people out there saying that it's an unrealistic dream without our peers attempting to suck the wind out of our sails.

But like Jarmusch said "Don't let the Fu#kers bring you down."

quote:

Originally posted by REDking:
First off ego is energy, so belittling arrogance is pointless because an ego driven person will dismiss the negative strain of Stu's original post. I know I did.

The point Stu was trying to make was about how a studentfilmmaker relates to and communicates with other student filmmakers, not how a student filmmakers relates to himself. It is definitely a good thing to be self-confident and determined, but it becomes a problem when you discourage/belittle other people that are also attempting to reach the same destination.

Fair enough, but spending time telling someone they will probably fall into complete and total obscurity is just as belittleing as "flaunting your dream".

Oh well, I get the point of Stu's post, I really do. I just think it's a waste of time and revolves around the persona of the filmmaker as opposed to the films themselves. Ultimately who gives a damn and where does someone get off telling someone else what frame of mind they should have.

So in relation to how we communicate with each other understanding of this ego or drive will be far more helpful and productive than tellling someone to get over themselves.

Wait a minute did I just tell you how you should think after I just complained about being told how to think! ARGH! Oh wait my arrogance is kicking in. Ok now I don't care since I'm right.

My only flaw is my enormous ego, if it wasn't for that I'd be perfect. (I wish there was an Ironic font.)