This discussion was started in a different thread and I thought it would be appropriate to make an independent thread for it.

So what's your take on this? Think about Tarantino and how far he's gone without film school. Then think about Spielberg who, if I'm not mistaken, was an english major.

Is film school really worth it? Why or why not?

if u want into the film "industry" thentry film school out, if u just wanna make good films don't.

Well I'm not making films for nothing. If you make a film it's generally because you have a message to share. Ultimately I want to distribute my message to a mass audience. I feel that the "industry" might be the best way to do that, despite the fact that I strongly disagree with their questionable motives.

I still don't feel like you've answered the question, though.

If you read this, just tell me what you think, especially if you're in film school right now or have been.

You know, I like to think of myself as a revolutionary even if my ideas aren't. The only reason I want to spend a second in Hollywood is because it's the best, if not only option I have to make my vision seen at a cineplex across the country. I hate the fact that there's only one option, a soul-sucking, integrity-ruining, pride-killing option. Hollywood is just old money. Recycled money, just like its ideas. Studentfilms.com seems like a great start, a far off launching pad, if you will. Still, it's a small community of mostly film makers watching and over critiquing each other's movies, (and I ain't saying that I ain't at fault.) If there were any way for us to be a bigger community, one that meant a damn to the outside, non-film making world, I would go for it in a heartbeat.

I hate that Hollywood is a four letter word. I hate that nothing is being done about it. I just want some ****ing change.

elliott...

I got into two good film schools, but since I'm in NJ, they're in NY, and I'm paying my own way, It would've been far too expensive. I realize that that may have been the best misfortune I've ever had, since now I'm getting a communication degree with a concentration in film that will give me the knowledge to do film, but the degree to do a ton of other crap as well.

Over the last year, I've done some PA work on a few films and got quite an education. I also got paid for it. I agree with what was said above, if you want into Hollywood, go to film school. Eli Roth did, and made one of the crappiest, but most commercial films I've ever seen... Cabin Fever. In my opinion, Film school doesn't give you the talent, it just gives you the degree. The talent resides within. Either you can paint, play music, direct movies, draw, whatever. It's a talent that either you have or you don't, you're not taught it.

Me? I'd rather just direct really low budget shot on DV films that I'll self finance and self distribute. In the computer right now, I've got six or seven hours worth of DV footage from a flick that we shot on three decent Sony Hi-8 cams over three weekends. It cost me under 500 dollars to make, we've got a score completely done, and I've just gotta do some after FX work to add in muzzle flashes, do some foley, and some color correction. The movie is about 60% edited, since my day job is exhausting and I haven't always the time to edit it. The DVD itself will be a well done DVD, with commentary, extras, etc. When I make 50 copies and sell them at 10 dollars a piece, I'll make back what I spent. I'd prefer this over going to Hollywood where I'll be making a movie with someone else's money, and having that person be a thorn in my side. I don't need film school to do what I do. If someone picks up my movie for distribution, that's great. If not, I can still sleep knowing that I made a full length movie for 500 dollars (that doesn't include the other 1500 for cameras, tapes, lights, mics, etc. I don't cout that part of this budget since I already owned it), and that I made back some of what I spent. The 500 is from day one of shooting, to day nine. It's some pizza, some props, gas, some airsoft guns, and some other stuff.

I say do what will suit you. If film school isn't what you want, you'll be out a few grand, but you can do something else.

If you aim to get a degree in something that will keep your options open (like communications or english), then that tells me that you're not fully dedicated to film. It's a very difficult industry to make it in, and it requires persistence and patience. People who are always concerned about their fall-back plan will probably go with their fall-back plan the first time that they fail, because it's a panic reflex. But if you look at many careers in Hollywood, you will see that many of the most successful people failed many times before they succeeded. And that's because they were dedicated; they thought about film and nothing else, because they didn't want to do anything else.

I know some people will disagree with me, but hopefully everyone can recognize and accept my point, because I think it's a reasonable one.

JW, maybe they will, but I won't. I would say I'm dedicated to film, but only about 75%. With my communications degree (well, I don't have it yet, but...) I'm pulling in thousands of dollars a year doing training videos, presentation videos, PSAs, etc. for the state government. I've also gotten a 15000 dollar contract to do a 25 minute documentary/infomercial on the Law Against Discrimination. I'm happy directing, framing shots, and editing anything, whether it be movies, weddings, PSAs, training videos, etc.

The other 25% of me is dedicated to my other loves... music, graphic design, and writing. I agree that your point is reasonable, but I've never met anyone who was 100% dedicated to anything. I'm a good singer/songwriter, I design a ton of documentation for my job, and I write press releases, essays, books, screenplays. None of my stuff is published officially, but around my campus I've got a reputation with the Literature department for being a great writer. For me to devote myself 100% to film would be fun, but I'd be wasting talent elsewhere. I'm glad you're devoted 100% to making movies, and I hope your documentary takes off, but if you sank thousands of dollars into it and it didn't, and then you needed to get a real job to pay off the few thousand dollar debt, are you still 100% dedicated?

(If your parents are wealthy and paying your way, by all means disregard my last question. My other reason for not going to film school was that it was going to cost me entirely too much money, since I'm paying my own way 100%)

I hope you can recognize and accept my point, because I think it's a reasonable one.

For me, what it all comes down to is the money... for everything except film. If I don't break even, I don't care, because I love making movies, whether it be action, comedy, or a documentary. I make enough money elsewhere to take a loss and eat the money I've spent on making a movie. That's passion. That's dedication. If I got a record deal, I'd do the album and use the proceeds to make a movie.

I think in addressing this topic, we need to be cognizant that there are many facets to film. Someone with a background in graphic design will potentially make a better illustrator than a student sho studied directing. Likewise, an architecture student will most likely be a better set designer than a film student. All these pieces have to come together to make a quality film, but I think your concentration in school should line up with your aspirations in the film world. Overlap is exciting to me, but film students can't do it all. It's important to bring people in from other backgrounds to make a more dynamic project. That's my opinion, anyway. But I completly agree with JW that dedication is essential to success.

I am in my last semester at NYU and for me, this school helped tremendously to grow as a film maker. I believe strongly that a good film school helps you a LOT to make good movies. **** the equipment, everyone can rent a camera. Yet, the teachers and students you work on a day to day basis are what makes it so worthwhile. There is so much talent around you, so much competition...its just great to be there.

i say this every time this topic comes up. the way i see it is that college seems like one of the rights of passage. its not for everyone, sure, but a lot of people should expierence it. its a way to branch off and expeirence more of the world, while still its still being payed for hundreds of miles away. you meet great friends, and get an education. so, if your gonna go to college, might as well study something you love, like film. now if dont wanna do that, good luck, i hope u have another love to study, or good luck being chucked out into the real world.

but thats just me, i could be wrong

quote:

In my opinion, Film school doesn't give you the talent, it just gives you the degree. The talent resides within. Either you can paint, play music, direct movies, draw, whatever. It's a talent that either you have or you don't, you're not taught it.

I basically agree. Film school is fine for developing connections, etc. but I'm really not sure how much that matters. Like I said somewhere else on this site, if you're good enough, it will be very difficult to prevent yourself from rising in the industry.

JW - that's a pretty absurd statement. If you like to play soccer, but you also like to go fishing on the weekends, does that mean you aren't 100% dedicated to soccer? If you love to make movies, but you also like Chinese food, does eating Chinese food mean you aren't completely dedicated to film?

The act of getting a degree in something besides film doesn't mean you won't be a dedicated or skilled filmmaker. Hell, many schools don't even offer dedicated film degrees. Some great directors were never formally trained in film and instead have engineering, physics, or English degrees. Do you also believe every great screen actor has to have a degree in acting? I think not.

paul - your getting a communications degree w/ a concetration in film from a school in nj? do u go to william paterson u. by any chance?

Yes Evan, eating chinese food makes you devoid of dedication to film. ;-) I do feel that JW's mentality is a little bit... err... overboard. He's 101% devoted, and I respect that, but at the same time I've got too much talent elsewhere to waste if I concentrate solely on film.

I agree somewhat with the connections, but I've found that if you do good work, people will find you. I've been found, because I do quality work.

I'm glad someone shares the same view as me. By chance, Are you in film school Evan?

Film automatically encompasses so many other things that if you are "devoted to film," in my case that also means I'm devoted to lighting, music, editing, acting, writing... all art is the same in that respect. Artists just work in different mediums.

No, I'm not in film school. The university I go to is decent in most respects but the 'film' department is sorely lacking - they offer a grand total of two (2) production classes per semester, and both are crappy video classes that have nothing to do with my interests. The film theory courses through the English department are better, although they aren't production. I try to take as many of those as I can, but I'm not aiming for a film degree.

I think it is possible to be 100% devoted to more than one thing! I absolutely love filmmaking, but I'm also very happy when programming, taking photos, eating chinese, or designing.

I don't let these things interfere with each-other, and so far I've succeeded more than I anticipated in each. Yes, including eating chinese food.

I'm willing to let filmmaking take over when it needs to (like for the next four years), because it requires the greatest time/money investment.

You guys are all dancing around this "100% dedicated" thing. I never said anything about 100%. I said "fully dedicated" and I meant it in a professional sense. Of course you can have other interests and hobbies, but in most realities people draw a fine line between hobbies and profession. My point was that you need to be fully dedicated within that realm of your brain that deals with the pursuit of a career. What you do otherwise is your business.

quote:

My point was that you need to be fully dedicated within that realm of your brain that deals with the pursuit of a career.

I don't see the link. In your original post, you said "If you aim to get a degree in something that will keep your options open (like communications or english), then that tells me that you're not fully dedicated to film."

Maybe I misinterpreted, but you seem to be saying that getting a degree in anything other than film means you aren't fully dedicated. IMO, that's crap. If you're a filmmaker who is also interested in physics, and your school has an excellent physics program and a dismal film school, you'd have to be kind of misguided to get a film degree there. Bottom line - circumstances are different and a degree means very little as far as dedication is concerned.

This issue may be relevant to me because I chose not to go to film school, even though I'm more dedicated to film as art than most people. I simply don't think a film school degree is a great foot in the door.

Evan, you need to remember that film school gives you more than just a degree. It allows you to meet others who are pursuing the same dream, it allows you to make connections, and it allows you to learn about and practice that very thing every single day. It puts you into that environment that nurtures your interest and helps it grow, and it's the non-tangible things that gets your foot in the door, not a degree.

Furthermore, you're preaching not going to film school, and that's all fine and well, but you need to keep in mind that there are hundreds of people out there who are completely ignoring your advice and are going to film school. And that means that before you even start working, your competition will be a step ahead of you. More specifically, if you're interviewing for a job, and some other kid who is interviewing for the same job went to film school and has the films and the experience to show for it, he's probably going to be the one to get it. That's just reality.

What you also need to understand is that there is risk involved in dedicating yourself to something. People have fall-back plans because they're afraid to take that risk, and in my opinion, you can't be realistically dedicated to something if you're afraid of it. Show a little confidence in yourself, take a chance, work hard, and never give up.

Or you can just study physics for the rest of your life. It's your choice.

It's cool to see the direction this thread has taken; this is completely unexpected.

I guess I was referring to the whole nature vs. nurture schema. Does a degree in film school really work wonders? Or is that just raw talent?

I guess the best way to rephrase my original question would be as such (I apologize, this is the best simile I can come up with; I just woke up): Is skipping film school kind of like being asked to dig a hole without a shovel?

Oh, how everyone loves to go off. Well I suppose it my turn. This blaw blaw about film school is really irrelevant. Whether you go or not isn’t going to change who you are. It’s the type of person that you are that is going to determine whether you can get in the door. If I were you I would be thinking far less about what a close up and its effects are, and spend more time on trying to find a different outlook on life. Because that’s what people want to see. That’s what people are hungry for, and I tell yeah they not gonna teach you that in school. If you plan on being a director, and you plan on making interesting movies, I would worry more about my personal outlook and the way in which I perceive things, rather then worrying about my composition, because all of that will simple is a reflection of you outlook.

However, because there is always a however, if you don’t know your craft how can you expect to use your creativity to the fullest. If you can’t pain but you have a wicked idea for a painting,; your probably in a bit of trouble – arnt yeah. So I would; concern myself with whether you should or shouldn’t go to film school, I would just worry about learning everything and doing anything you can to improver and better your understanding of life. That’s the hard part. Taking some pictures; that will just fall into place.

Talent is merely the combination of passion and persistence – Einstein