I really didn't want to make one of these threads, but i've spent weeks researching cameras and i'm probably more confused now than i was before. So, i need the help of the hundreds of talented and passionate film makers we have here. Please hear me out, first some background info.

I've been into movie making and movies in general my entire life. I've made several short films for film class (many editing while we shoot, boy does it suck) and a couple where i got to edit afterwards, but we never really got as far into it as i would have liked. I have countless hours of experience behind a camera filming sporting events, school functions aswell as family gatherings etc. I have a good eye, and i'm a pretty good writter aswell as actor. I also have many connections all over Toronto for other actors, locations, crew etc.

My problem is that i don't have a camera anymore, my old beat up POS took its final death blow a couple of months ago while shooting a skate video. Since joining this forum i've read everything i could on different cameras, your opinions on them, experiences with them and anything else.

My problem is, i dont know where to go from here. What should i get? The closest thing to my price range would be something like a Canon GL2 or one of the Sony or Panasonic similar ones. I have $2000 Canadian saved + what ever i manage to save from here till about june/july (thats my ideal camera buying time, but i honestly wouldn't mind pushing it back to get something better). I've heard a lot of mixed reviews of the GL2 some people say they love it others say they've had problems. Idealy i would get an XL2, but i barely have half of what it would cost.

I'm not one of those dumb kids that wants "the film look" sure i want it to look good, but i know that the only way to REALLY get "the film look" would be to shoot on film. I personaly love the well done DV look, almost more than film. It makes it seem more real to me, if that even makes sense. This camera would be for making short films and some feature length ones of different genres, joke interviews (scifi conventions, on the street etc.), pop culture spoofs, comedy skits, documentaries, music videos etc. I am very serious about this and i want your serious thoughts on cameras. Also, i would like some help finding a place to order from, where did you guys order from? What where you experiences with these companies? Can i get delivery into Canada? Are there Canadian online stores, where i can get these packaged deals like the American ones? I've tried searching ebay and comparing prices for all those cameras with professional kits, but for half the them there's no delivery into Canada, i dont trust the company or the deal just seems too good to be true. Are those kits even nessecary? I know i'd need a tripod for sure, maybe lenses and what not, hard case etc. I'm a total high end camera newb!

Help me decide! PLEASE!!

Wow, don't all answer at once guys...

C'mon people. I know you're sick of these lame threads, but please i'm not an unprofessional 14 year old. I'm serious about this and would really appreciate any help you guys could give me.

If you really want to set yourself apart and you care about your work, get a decent super 8 or 16mm setup. $2000 CAD is quite a bit and will allow you to get a Bolex, decent lenses and enough film/processing/transfer for at least an hour of raw footage (up to 30-40 minutes of finished work if you're careful).

You probably shouldn't use your newly acquired gear to make skate videos, though. Sounds like a great way to destroy cameras and lenses.

I recommend a true fluid head (look for Millers in the $50-150 range), legs capable of holding at least 20 lbs ($120+), and a selection of basic primes for 16mm (10mm, 16mm, 25mm, 50mm) as well as a zoom or two.

I would say at this point your most important decision is what medium you want to shoot. DV, HDV or film.

DV is cheap(er), and you're used to the workflow.

HDV is quickly picking up steam in that price range (it's still a big higher than $2k, but not THAT much higher) and it costs a bit more to edit it. The enormous resolution isn't worth it unless you're getting it printed to film, show on an HD tv or HD projector, or doing crazy effects.

Film is going to look awesome IF you know what you're doing. It's not nearly as flexible or fluid when it comes to editing, post production, effects, etc.

I don't think there is any reason for you to go to film yet, personally.
If you're still going to be doing sports vids and stuff like boarding, stick with the now traditional DV format. Cheaper than the HDV mentioned by Ti, and still a decent bit of value. Plus because if you are going to continue doing such video's, you're going to respect the prices of DV tapes versus that of film. Virtually all sport films, such as biking and skate boarding seem to be shot on slightly older, XL1s'.

I'd just recommend getting a GL1 though. A decent price and worth it, especially for the sporting.

Another plus on going this way versus the idea of film is obviously the camera size. DV cams are small and compact (relativly), while film is big and clunky.
You don't wanna' be running after some dude on a board with a heavy cam, trust me.

I agree with pretty much all of that ^ Wise words.

Thanks for the input, but you guys a missunderstanding me.

I never said i would be making skate video with my new cam, i said i broke my old junker cam making one. The only reason i was using that camera was because it was really old and already messed up.

"This camera would be for making short films and some feature length ones of different genres, joke interviews (scifi conventions, on the street etc.), pop culture spoofs, comedy skits, documentaries, music videos etc."

Now that this has been cleared up, do you guys stand by your previous posts?

I was thinking atleast a GL2 type camera, if not an XL.

Yeah, I'd say that you're not going to be needing HDV, and film would be totally wrong for impromptu projects and features. DV is the way for you

I dunno - being sensible I'd say get a second-hand DV camera - DV's easy and if you're careful you'll be able to get a really good price on a really good camera.

However, granted film isn't right for smaller-projects if that's all you'll be doing, but I agree with Evan on this - take the plunge and go for film. Using film is an experience that'll train you to be more economic with your time, you'll get better set ups because you know it-costs-money-per-foot, you'll be a smarter editor because you can't just zip through it like you can DV. It's an experience worth the time. Hell, if I were in your situation and were more daring than I am, I'd get a 16mil camera.

But I'm not and I'm not, so go DV.

Okay then. Sorry, we but mostly I was just presuming... that because you seem to be doing a lot of more random video work that another sport movie wasn't too far out of the relm of possibility.

Why are you making your video's? Are people going to be viewing them online, or on local TV or what have you?

I'm pretty much set on DV or HDV, film would be way to expensive in the long run. Due to the nature of a lot of the stuff i'm goning to be doing there will be a lot of outtakes that i would still like to capture for the sheer hilariousness of it.

Now, which camera to get? I'm pretty sure that ordering from an American company would end up being cheaper in the end. What are your views on this?

Ademu: Well...it is possible, but it would not be a close up pure action kind of thing like an actual skate video. Under those circumstances a camera could easily be destroyed, like mine was. If i were to shoot any skateboarding it would be part of a scene in a movie and from a good distance.

I'm making my videos because i happen to be lucky enough to have an extremely talented, hilarious and generally amazing group of friends. We've been told on many occasions that our brand of humour would be hilarious in some sort of show, it is very unique. I plan in making a website with these videos and other stuff by us like art, music, photography etc. I also hope to pitch a show to Showcase here in Toronto.

One more question... and I appologize that no ones really been helping you here, myself obviously included.

I don't think anywhere you mentioned camera budget; though I'd be inclined to think it's a decent amount, because I do recall you saying you'd be looking at a GL2, or a XL1s...?

He said around $2000. Now as far as I can tell, in all seriousness just get a good 3 CCD camera and go for it. Learn as much as you can. I'm sure you've read all the threads advising you to do this but want a reccomendation on a camera but it's all personal choice. I used a PVGS120 for about a year and a half before I outgrew it and just a couple weeks ago but a DVX100b. Starting somewhere decent until you've learned the basics is always the smartest move. If there's one thing I've learned it's get a good 3 CCD camera like maybe the Panasonic PVGS400 and spend some cash on a good mic, some lighting and a more well rounded kit.

Just remember, a camera alone doesn't make for good quality.

-Kegan

Okay then, what I'm gonna' recommend is jazz from Sony.
Right now, I'm looking at the Sony HDR-HC1. I won't be able to even look at it seriously though, for about another year or so... which makes me hate life just a tad more than ever before.


Another cam to look at is the Sony HDR-FX1 cam. It's kinda' in the same league as the XL1s, but is a ton cheaper... I'm not sure if it has the HUGE interchangable lens system though that the top of the line Canon's do.
It also comes in a bit more than your 2 grand limit, at 3,000 gil.

I'm personally a big fan of Sony's jazz these days. I got hooked on the older Hi-8 Handycams about 4 years ago now, and haven't turned a cheek to the company since.
I have personally had tons of problems with Canon and their AC-in jacks.

That being said, go to a site here...

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CamInfo-Select-2005.htm
This link (should it function correctly, will give you a run down on the 2005 camera's and their various awards. Then of course check out the full reviews for either one.

Ademu: I stated in the first post have 2000 CAD + what ever i manage to save, so i can have up to 5000 by the time im ready to purchase. The Sony HDR-HC1 and the FX1 were the first things i saw and concidered, but after seeing some of David Lehre's work (all shot on an XL2) i fell in love with the XL2. Soon after i saw the GL's (they're used in many skate videos) and i concidered that, but after reading about problems people have had i wasn't so sure. Which is when i made this thread. I've pretty much rounded it down to an XL or one of the Sony HDRs, but i'm still really confused. I'm very indecisive when it comes to dropping a large sum of money on something.

Kegan: Well yeah, im not getting anything other than a good 3ccd, as stated i'm not a newb. I've made dozens of short films, been gorilla filming. All that. I know that the camera doesn't make for good quality movies, but i'm experienced enough to know what's good and what's not. I write all my own stuff and i've turned down many projects in the past because i didn't approve of the script.

Thanks for the help guys, i was pretty much headed in the same direction you guys are pointing.

Now, what about ordering? Should i go with Ebay? I'm refusing to get anything used, so it would probably be one of those kits companies sell on there. Are there any better ways?

There are MUCH better ways than eBay. When shelling out a bunch of cash you don't want to buy from eBay. I did it with my lesser end 3 CCD cam and have been lucky not to have any problems. The problem though is that unless the place is an authorized dealer (which eBay is definitley not) your warranty won't be honoured. You say that you'll have $5000 CDN saved up when ready for purchase? I highly reccomend the DVX100b then. The HC-1 and the FX1 are good cameras but they are consumer level camcorders. The FX1 just looks pretty.

Now, if you're seriously considering getting a good camera and do have $5000, I'd say go to www.dvxuser.com and check out the comparisons between the DVX100, the XL2 and the FX1. It has footage as well and you can decide from there.

Another point to consider is that if you decide to go for the Xl2, the chances of you buying lenses to switch are pretty low. Not many people I know with XL2's have ever bought other lenses but you might be different.

All that being said, I wouldn't advise you to go with a Gl2 or FX1 or HC-1, just for the simple reason that they are all just high end consumer cameras. The DVX and Xl2 are prosumer cameras and produce stunning footage. It's all personal preference and up to you to make the final decision. I took quite a while myself and am very happy with my decision. Some people may think that 24p is just a cheap way to get the "film look" but it really makes your movies have a more professional feel to them.

That's all for now.

-Kegan

Ok, so what sites are good to order from? Or do you tink it would be better to just go to a local store?

Good sites to order from...

That's a tough one because I don't know of what the taxes would be coming in from another country. Most of them are out US based websites that offer pretty good deals. As you're in Ontario though, I'd advise going to Henry's.

That's like our B&H. Good store and knowledable people.

-Kegan

Seeing as I didn't really help you (sorry tons), I would also suggest 'McBain' Camera.
But... it's probably only an out west kinda' thing; in which case I acknowlege I just failed you again. Realistically.


Why not just wait for the fabled HDV update to the XL2? Then drop a solid 10 grand...?

I'm sure we both helped him-don't be down on yourself. I doubt he'll be able to drop 10k on a camera as a student. Unless that was sarcasim, in which case...that's funny.

-Kegan