I’m going to be shooting a 1 hour 30 min show. I’ll be using one Sony TRV-900 and one Cannon GL-2. Audio will come into both cameras from a mixer with ambiance (audience noise) and audio directly from the soundboard. A question about white balance though. I heard the Sony will balance more towards cyan and Cannon more towards magenta. Should I manually white balance these cameras before the show or use auto? The lighting will change (stage lighting, different colors etc…). During the intermission I’ll switch one hour tapes. I’m going to sync the footage in post and cut between them. Any tips on shooting groups?

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,
I have done this alot, recording theatrical performances at school, school events, etc.

The one thing I would def. say, is to be prepared, be orgainized, and have a backup plan for everything.

If there are any rehearsals, sit in on them. Will these shots be static, or will people be operating them?



** I would have camera 1 shoot from the middle to the right side of the stage, and the camera 2, shoot from mid, to left. So the angles will be more interesting.

Have one camera focus on head-to-toe shots, while the other worry on the medium, to ECU shots...

That way, you know that the shots will be different, and in editing, it will look great.

One other thing to worry about...
When the lights go down, you might have to adjust the exposure accordingly...
[THIS ISNT A HUGE THING TO WORRY ABOUT, BUT STILL]

Now, what will you be editing on? Because if you are on Avid, or FCP... You can do some color correction, in case the cameras aren't really equal in the white balancing...

UH...LOL, I'm all scatter brained, but If I think of anything else, I'll let you know!

Good luck man!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: J.MICHAEL,

I disagree with that camera setup. I would have one at the back of the auditorium (center, right, left, doesn't matter), and one camera roaming in front of the stage. That will give you much more variety in your shots and will make the video a lot more interesting.

Well thats dependent on the setup of the theatre, auditorium...

It depends on the theatre too, and in some cases, the administration. (e.g. Director of show) The director might not allow you to shoot where you want, (e.g. feet from the apron [the front part of the stage])
You might have to shoot where THEY want you to shoot, since its THEIR production. Plus, i wouldnt want some nerd infront of me, when i paid good money to come see a play...

"one camera roaming in front of the stage"--- yeah, if you want your ass kicked by some dude that had to stare at YOU instead of what he came to see...

What you prolly didn't think of JW, is I never said the cam#1 and cam#2 were both the same distance from the stage...
He can move one as close or as far away as he wants to..
The purpose of those drawings were to show the angle i shot at... ==NOT== the distance...


The key josh_trv, is to stay out of the way, but get the best shots that you can.

Its one of those case-by-case things...

I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but I used to do two-camera shoots for indian casino concerts–mostly country music like Leanne Rymes and Travis Trit. Anyway, we would put one camera in the back on sticks and one handheld up front in the orchestra pit. Yes, we got in plenty of peoples way. Yes, they were pissed to spend a hundred bucks a ticket only to look at my backside. But that's why the camera is handheld ...so you're constantly moving around. Now, depending on the performance, a roving camera in front may not be appropriate, but sectioning off a few seats to set up a tripod in the front middle might work. I would definitely say make sure the cameras always have different shots (so you can cut back and forth). Like, have one camera always do a wide shot and one always be on closeups. If you only have one camera operator, lock off a wide shot.

As far as white balancing, be lazy and just use the indoor preset. Don't use auto because it'll work against the lighting design (always trying to make it white). As far as cannon and sony differences, I would worry more about keeping exposures, focus, and amount of noise generated by electronic gain consistent. You can always fix a slight color imbalance in post.

my .02

Thanks for the input J.MICHAEL. It’s a skating rink so I like your setup. I’ll put the cameras on the ends of the rink where they have been in the past. One reason I’m shooting this is because a “professional company” in years past has done a poor job of getting the entire skater and the whole group (to many bust shots, stays with one person way to long when there are 10 people, skates are cut off).

Since this is figure skating and not really to many facial expressions I’m thinking one camera for close group shots/whole body and the other more of a large overview/establishing view for the patterns they make. Maybe the company didn’t understand this and went “by the book”. The cams will be on tripods as handheld wont really work. How do you sync your cameras in the NLE? I was just going to shoot the seconds of a digital LED clock then align the tracks. Thanks again for the infomation!

joren, I like your white balancing idea

quote:

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Originally posted by J.MICHAEL:
"one camera roaming in front of the stage"--- yeah, if you want your ass kicked by some dude that had to stare at YOU instead of what he came to see...

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Your primary concern should be the quality of the video. If people complain, nod your head and apologize, but keep shooting.

quote:

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Originally posted by JW:
Your primary concern should be the quality of the video. If people complain, nod your head and apologize, but keep shooting.

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Wow, i hope your being sarcastic but i doubt you are. Not only would you be yelled at by the patrons who paid to watch a play and have right over you, the director and actors would yell at you too. They're more concerned about making sure the audience is happy above all, that is why they're performing for an audiece and not a camera.

I shot a 2 hour play. It took me 2 months to edit by myself, and 1 month to mass produce. I had at times 6 angles. You won't take this long, because i did many stupid things anyone here trying to film an event should pay attention to.

-Try to avoid filming over a period of days(many wont worry about this) because the audio and expressions wont match up very well. Its a ***** trying to see what works when you want a cam angle that wont match.
-Use as many cameras as you have acess to, but to avoid sync problems, zoom into the same clock, press record on each one, the set them back up from there, and dont ever stop untill intermission. This way your 2 videos can go on different tracks, and you just cut what you want from each layer and put it on your master channel.
-dont guarentee when youll have it done by, please do not DO NOT I was so confident i'd get a dvd in their hands by 3 weeks, 4 1/2 months later I was done with it ALL, and there really is alot more than you grasp initially like covers, securing a dvd burner, ect.
-This was my first time, and maybe yours. Rememer if it is you have a reputation you want to keep. You want to have a good name so people recomend you and buy from you again above all (if your like me and film all the plays now). Don't promise too much, give a price quote LATER, and don't juggle this big project with other videos. Adults aren't patient and hundreds of dollars are at stake.
-Try to offer DVD, we all know VHS players wont exist in 5 years, and the tapes wear out easily. Its easy to not care what their product will look like in 10 years, but think about it. You can advertise the true powers of a DVD. It can last decades, the quality remains perfect, its durable. Get this, if you buy a pack of 25 dvds for $20 (look for the sale), thats actually cheaper than getting 25 blank VHS's!
-Get a number of people just to sign their name and email if they're interested in a dvd. Give them a ballpark price of 20-25$. If just 10 people want a dvd, you can afford a burner right there! While this may not seem atractive at first, youll need it later. I've seen how cost effective it is to buy mine rather than going to a house or borrowing a friends, do not go to a rental house, because you will again and again if your into videography production.

-Don't split the proffits with other people willing to operate a camera. First off you dont know how much youll make, and they'll want something obsurd like half when they really wont edit, which is where the real pain comes in. I spent over 100 hours editing the play, and i'm only getting half the money, because the "PRO" camera man got his one professional angle, and left me to the rest, demanding half. Ask for free help, and have that person operate the MS or LS camera. Dont mention money at all.

With that in mind, heres what i think you should do to film it. Parents want to see their kids faces nomater what, thats the most important thing. So I wouldnt worry about a very long shot, with those 2 cameras i would have one get the group with a MS (have your friend do this), and you tackle the shots of the skaters just barely getting head to toe. Only focus on one, but make sure you can see their faces, which you likely will. This'll be tough, so get a fluid head tripod. Remember that you can cut to the MS at any time, so dont be afraid to film a kid for 10 seconds, then quickly pan to another (at which time you cut) then cut back to the next kid. Film everyone equally, remember its everyones video, not a showcase of the best skater.

quote:

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Originally posted by screenwriter_14:

quote:

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Originally posted by JW:
Your primary concern should be the quality of the video. If people complain, nod your head and apologize, but keep shooting.

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Wow, i hope your being sarcastic but i doubt you are.

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Open your eyes, see the smiley? I was joking. Relax.

I'm not. F 'em. If someone asks (contracts/hires) you to video something, you have every right to be there and do the best job you can, even if that means causing momentary discomfort or obstruction to a minority of the audience. Video should be your top priority unless you've otherwise arranged something with the client (like a wedding videographer staying out of the still photographer's way). If you need to stand in someone's way to get the shot you need, you should do it. Then nod your head and apologize later. Unless you're otherwise told, consider your video more important than any one person's viewing experience, because it normally is. Now, obviously you don't want to disrupt the show. But there is a difference. Think of all the expensive 50 yard line, 6th row seats that get blocked by the camera towers at monday night football.

no smilies here

wow, thanks for typing those tips screenwriter_14! So what your saying is to get MS's (chest and up) of all skaters and have the other cam get head to toe. Should I be panning accross while in tight and get a wide group shot once in a while? My other camera man and me will have VOX headsets to talk to each other, is that a good idea? Thanks for helping me with this!

Your welcome, i tend to speak out when I know what i'm talking about. I would say if your the more experienced cameraman, handle the shots of the kids from head to toe. I would film a kid for like 15 seconds, then occasionally zoom into a waist up shot, so you get a really good shot of their face, but not for long. Quickly move on to the next kid, swish pan or whatever, youll be cutting remember. Repeat the same process, keeping an eye open for whoever looks hot at the moment. The other camera is for filming the whole group of kids, and for auxilary shots. As in shots of the anouncer or the occasional audience shots. Thats great you can talk to him, when you can film for a long time, as in dont do anything that would force you to cut to his shot, he can get these other shots of the audience. Just be sure to tell him when he can film other stuff, and make sure your filming with good fluidity, because you cant cut to a MS. So dont swish pan or be eradicate.
Make him tell you when hes back to his MS so you can go back to routine.

I understand how you want to have the best video possible, but realize the shows not only about the cameraman, even if you do have a contract. I dont know why JW suggested this, but if you paced back and forth around the apron, not only would you look like a jack@ss, your play wouldnt look good, and your shots unnecessary. I know its hard for you guys to understand what its like to be obstructed if your not a theatre fan, but lets have common curtosy. You can easily shoot from one of the seats frontrow, thats how i do it for my CU's. Just dont make a big deal of yourself, like by standing up or making lots of noise. And Joren were talking about a skating event, not a wedding event. You dont need to move around, its all infront of you, just pan around for gosh sakes. By the way, if you can, I would film durring a rehersal, that way you can get on the stage and bring in whatever setup without obstructing anyone.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: screenwriter_14,

quote:

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Originally posted by screenwriter_14:
if you paced back and forth around the apron, not only would you look like a jack@ss, your play wouldnt look good, and your shots unnecessary.

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You only move when you have to, you don't walk back and forth just for the hell of it. The point of roaming is so that you can get any angle you need to get. Yes, since you're handheld, some shots will suck, but that's why you have the wide shot, so you can cut back and forth as needed. I've done this sort of setup more times than I can begin to count, and it has turned out great every time.

And, I wasn't joking about the video being the most important. I was joking about the "nod and apologize" part, because in order to nod and apologize, you would need to take your eyes off the shot.

JW, remember, we're talking about filming a stage or a RINK.


00++++stage++++++00
00+++++++++++++++00
00------X--------00wall
00---------------00
00---audience----00
00---------------00

X is you, why would moving around be an advantage? You can just stay in the middle, and get the shots by panning, the actors or performers know to act facing toward the middle, so going to the front corner has no advantage other than loosing shooting time.
That may work for other events but not this one.

When you're that close, being able to move around and get alternate angles and heights and placements is an invaluable advantage. If that really needs to be explained to you in more detail, then you're in the wrong business, my friend.

Once again that would be too obstructive to an audience to pace around, and usually they wont let you move around in the front row, considering people actaully sit there and will get pissed.

I shot a play once. Hated it, but hey I got payed so I would do it again.
I had the Director announce that there would be this guy running around with a camera and would be producing videos for everybody. This really helped when I had to squeeze down on aisle one or two times because it was them who would benefit from it. So my two cents is, have it announced that you will be running around a little bit.