First Post- Question about sound.

[EddieMadrid]

Hi! I just signed up because I searched everywhere and I cannot seem to find the answer anywhere on the internet.

I was watching a short filmed called "Clapping For The Wrong Reasons" and around the 11:15 mark the scene changes to a faraway shot but the audio of their conversation sounds close up though there's no visible microphones they're wearing or boom stands. I would understand it if they weren't visibly talking during the faraway shot but they are and the audio is perfectly on time with their mouth movement and other sounds and is just something that can't be recreated on another take (for those that were about to suggest the "the filmed it once then again" theory). Any type of answer will be great sorry if this is a really remedial question!

 

[EddieMadrid]

here's a link by the way i forgot to post

 

[Mike_V]

You would be very surprised where someone can place lavs on a person's body. In my experience sound mixing as well as talking to other sound mixers, it's easiest w/ women since their cleavage essentially hides the lavs and also protects the lavs from cloth rustles (same w/ men who have massive chests).
in the case of your question, they're so far away, 2-4 wireless lavs could be used to easily catch 4 tracks of audio. they're all full clothed and the camera is so far away that you would never be able to see the wire on the actor's clothes.

 

[TheSilverScreen]

Lavs can be a good option for wide and medium shots in which a shotgun mic or hypercardioid mic an option . Although for the wide shot at 11:17, the most efficient and easy way to achieve that "effect" would be to do ADR since the movement of the actor's mouths are farther away and not as easy to make out. ADR is the process in which the (usually original) actors re-record and sync up audio segments that could not be recorded on set, usually due to background noise captured during recording or inability to hide a mic in a shot. Essentially, it's like dubbing a film. But instead of dubbing your film into another language, you are dubbing the film into your own language because of flaws in audio recording during production.

But how do you do ADR? You get your actors to reread their lines that they said in the film, trying to match their lips as closely as possible. For a wide shot like that, synchronization of the actor's mouths to the newly recorded voices is not as important. But for a wide shot where a boom cannot be fit in, matching movement of lips is much more important. But that's where Mike's suggestion comes into place: lavs. Lavs are good for shots where ADR becomes difficult because of how visible mouth movement is, and booms are not an option because the mic would be too far away.

Anyway, best of luck!

 

[Mike_V]

ADR is usually a last resort. It's almost always preferable to use Lavs or boom to record sound.
It's not often that ADR sounds anywhere as close to the scene's dialogue and even when you edit the ADR audio, it's not often that you can match ADR with the rest of the scene easily. the lack of appropriate roomtone as well as how the actors are recorded for ADR vs how they are recorded on set really makes it an issue for getting ADR to sound seamless with a conversation as well.

 

[TheSilverScreen]

ADR is usually a last resort. It's almost always preferable to use Lavs or boom to record sound.
It's not often that ADR sounds anywhere as close to the scene's dialogue and even when you edit the ADR audio, it's not often that you can match ADR with the rest of the scene easily. the lack of appropriate roomtone as well as how the actors are recorded for ADR vs how they are recorded on set really makes it an issue for getting ADR to sound seamless with a conversation as well.

I agree for the most part. Although some post sound manipulation with filters and volume adjustment, as well as adding room tone for a wide angle shot where lip movement and expression in the character's faces is not seen can be convincing. I like to avoid ADR, as many filmmakers do (except for those with a fix it in post mentality and/or large budget), but sometimes it is the better way to go. Just trying to give a suggestion that could make shooting for the OP easier (especially is there is lots of movement in the scene or very run and gun), and another sound option for incredibly wide angle shots.

 

[Mike_V]

I'm simply saying that ADR is your last resort, unless you're making some sort of stylistic choice. ADR extremely rarely sound like they fit right into the scene with the rest of the natural dialogue. but in his case, they're just lavs at best. or even a plant, if you got the right equipment.
there are cases where no amount of manipulation in post will ever make it sound like it's part of the scene hence why i avoid talking about ADR unless they need it badly.

 

[TheSilverScreen]

Agreed.

 

[symon james]

I was under the impression that ADR was used more often than you are suggesting, Couldnt the scene be using a combination of Both.
ie actors that are standing wearing mic's ADR for the two doing the push ups?
I am doing this presently in pro tools

 

[Mike_V]

combining adr and nat sound is usually pretty hard. Finding a good place to record adr is hard and mixing it in to sound like that audio came from the same place? even harder.