To our English members: my thoughts are with you

[titaniumdoughnut]

It just makes me sick that al-Qaeda has struck such a harmless and innocent target as the London public transit. My thoughts are with London and the people of England.

Justice must be achieved, and I hope the miserable scum responsible for today's attacks are captured. May today's victims not have died in vain.

 

[Blkmamba]

Wow, yeah, I woke up late and this is just terrible. Just really really sad.

My prayers go to them too.

 

[CameraHead]

Indeed. To the British people who have been violated upon, I am sorry. What the Islamic extremists feel they need to do to achieve some form of vengance or retribution is wrong and the people of everday life should not have to experience the pain and suffering that is involved with such massacres of human life. I cannot seem to grasp the fact that Al Qaeda has now included Britain in its ring of evil and it now feels responsible for bringing down the so called oppression or wrong doing that they feel that the US, Britain and most likely, many other countries, are purveyors of. If one thing is for certain, the hunt for these terrorists will not end anytime soon. I am saddened by the fact that I fear that many more lives will be taken by both the Coalition and Islamic extremist forces before any conclusion to this conflict presents itself. The saying goes, "Together we stand, divided we fall." I think that saying is wrong. If we do fall, then I say let us fall together.

I will continue to support the British in this time of great need and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[FashtheStampede]

Those bastards will pay. Such a terrible ordeal this is. My heart goes out to all victims

 

[Forsakenproductions]

I think the saddest part is that people live in that kind of environment everyday. Such as in Isreal and other such countries awhere bombings are almost a daily event.

This "East against West" war has been going on for centuries, and will continue to do so. No one can hide from it.

My heart goes out to the people in London and remembers those of 9/11.

 

[Hill Dawson Kane]

I don't want top come in here and speak openly just to piss people off (it's not my intention), but I am speaking honsetly when I suggest that maybe there should have been less time spent in Iraq (still looking for those WMD's?) and more time and energy spent cathcing real terrorists. Unfortunately, I feel that the entire western world, including myself and my country, have been and will continue to be ignorant about "why" these people wish to cause us harm and terrorize, and kill us. It's the one question that no one has been willing to accept the answer to, instead being fixated on revenge and retaliation. It's too bad some people cannot take a look from another POV. These types of attacks on civilians have been happening everyday over the last 2 years, with little more than a 30 second summary on CNN, or Fox News, but as soon as it happens to someone from an "allied" country, a white country (as much as I hate to admit it), it's all over the news, and all in our hearts. Why, only now do we open up to this particular tragedy, and not the others that we don't have to see on our front doorstep?

 

[Forsakenproductions]

Bravo, Kane (did I just agree with you politically?).
Its like the first part of my post said. This is a daily event for a lot of people. Why are we suddenly saddened when it happens to us or one of our allies?
We cannot fight these people. They are not a nation, they are an idea. We do not know how to combat that.
on the other hand, we cannot appease them. That would be a whole Hitler all over again. (Check your history about Hitler and appeasement)
So what are we supposed to do about terrorism? Quit screwing around and playing politics. Forget who said what. Hit these people where it hurts. No one can fight a whole world united against them.


CameraHead: The proper meaning for "United we stand, divided we fall" is this: If we are united, we shall stand. If we are divided, we shall fall.

 

[CameraHead]

Oh yes I know. I was just getting across the point of unity. In any case, what I said is of little consequence. However, HDK, I am surprised to say, just like Forsaken, that I am agreeing with you politically. That is very true and this does happen all over the world on a daily basis. The one thing I don't necessarily know is if it happens on such a large scale. While this attack was not as tragic as the terrorist acts of September 11th, it still effected a large number of people. The death toll is currently rising and is chalked in at around 50 deaths to date. The wounded involved in this bombing number somewhere over 700 people. This was a larger than average attack.
In response to the anger we feel when it happens to an allied nation, I would tend to agree with HDK to a point. In the Middle East, this is common place. In England, this sort of thing never happens. While I understand that one must view this from a detached point of view and say that it does does happen all over the world, the world is a large place with many varying customs and people. It is an odd thing to lump 6.5 billion people together into one group and say something like that.
It could also be that we want to care. People in America, or at least the part of America where I'm from, tend to not want to care anymore. Massachusetts is a liberal state and most don't agree with what's happening in Iraq and generally everything President Bush does, however, we are tired of Iraq. Frankly, I used to care about what happened over there. I never agreed with this war. I think that like Forsaken said, they are an idea and not a nation. I don't care about what happens over in Iraq anymore. There are some days when I open an internet browser and there on my homepage (CNN.com) is a constant barrage of death and pain. It makes me feel as though we should carpet bomb the Middle East and be done with it. But then I realize that there are billions of innocents over there and I restrain myself. I feel bad for these innocents but I just lack compassion. We've been fighting a fruitless war since late September of 2001. I think it's time that the soldiers came home to their families and the Middle Eastern familes of Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria were left to form their own government.
When Bush entered office, we had large surplus. Now, the US has incurred more debt than is almost humanly possible to do in such a period of time.
I'm sorry that this post went all over the place. This topic is very firey and needs to be talked about. I don't ask you to agree with me but thanks for reading.

 

[Hill Dawson Kane]

im a little sorry nw for setting this thread off into a debate, i guess its more appropriate to say something about this particular attack because of our link to peope from england and europe who spend time on thsi site and send in their films (which is why this thread was started in the first place). I only wish we had a broader group of nationalities from around the world, i think it's mostly filmmakers from North America, Europe, and a few from Australia etc... maybe in the future.

 

[titaniumdoughnut]

I am amazed that we're able to have this discussion - disaster really does bring people together

I pretty much agree with all that has been written. I too have wondered vaguely to myself if there is any good in the middle east, and wondered if it should be dealt with as a whole. But there are millions of people there, as innocent as the ones on the Rt 30 bus. And, even if (God forbid) the middle east were wiped out, the terrorists would still exist, and would multiply much faster on our own soil than they already do.

 

[Dumitru]

My soul is with you too, guys!
sometimes I'd like to live somewhere else, but there are moments when I'm glad I live in a country that will never be a target for the terorism!!!
god be with you, we are!

 

[titaniumdoughnut]

Welcome Dumitru. I hope you are right, and that your people never have to live under the shadow of terrorism.

 

[Forsakenproductions]

Moldova? Time to hit the atlas, lol.

I hate to say it, because I like to be optimistic, but as of right now, we're all screwed. Even if Bush had not won the election, we'd still be screwed. This "war" has been heading our way for a LONG time, and it just happened to hit our shores on Sept 11, 2001.
The terroritsts will win eventually. They want to win more. Its like an amateur playing against a pro. The amateur will win if the pro doesn't want it as much. The fact is, not very many people care, and want to give up. In a way, Bush has given up by remaining in a stagnant Iraq. I'm not saying abandon it, but we need to find this Osama and whoever else we can. If we do give up, we're screwed. If we keep fighting, we have a better chance.

 

[E.D.M.]

Let me start by clarifying I do not justify terrorism or violence in any of its forms, no matter who the victims or attackers are. Having said that...
There are so many forms of violence, of terrorism, of attacking people, nations... there are even ways to control and/or destroy without directly attacking anyone. And Americans should know.
Not that your people excercise these practices everyday. Not that the most educated part of the country lacks the tools or access to information that enables them for the proper analysis of their own politics. Not that most of the people who participate on these forums (and thus read this post and maybe reply to it, enraged or sympathetic) haven't shown enough compassion and/or genuine interest for other points of view.
It's just that, despite all these positive traits, your people seems to keep voting for politicians who reinforce the same direction regarding foreign affairs, which have taken the many forms of violence that exist, against (in many ways) weaker countries.
I have lived in the US, and like a lot of things about the country and what is has to offer. Never before did I have to explain to so many people where my country is (Argentina... grab your atlas, people). This included having to state that we are not close to Italy, not an island close to Africa, and yes, of course, we are close to Brazil, which is a pretty safe thing to say about most countries in South America (oh..!).
After this, I certainly never expected anyone to know more about my country than maybe Evita, soccer, and after 2001, you may also know us as the country that had six presidents in ten days.
We've had military dictatorships, we've had 30000 "dissapeared" people (who were illegally kidnapped and then killed by the last dictatorship), we've had economic crisis like you can;t begin to imagine, and some of the most corrupt governments in history. And for the most part, that's our fault. Cause in the end, we allowed it to happen.
But as the CIA opens its classified files, we learn that the US government knew about most of these things before they happened, or as they were happening, and did nothing, except support some of them. As they also provided support for military coupes (then dictatorships) in Chile and Uruguay, which also led to the death of thousands of innocents. I could go on and on....
So, while I'm not personally bitter against your people, or the US as a country, I'm not as naive in regard to what they have allowed/supported in the past as... well, some of you. Your lack of knowledge about what your own governments have imposed upon the rest of the world (as a whole, or countries individually), is what makes most of your citizens "innocent".
I'll say it again: I despise violence and terrorism in any of its many forms. But one shouldn't recognise cruelty only when bombs are detonated.

 

[CameraHead]

I'll say it again: I despise violence and terrorism in any of its many forms. But one shouldn't recognise cruelty only when bombs are detonated.

Amen I suppose. And I agree that the US is very selective and manipulative in the way it handles certain foreign affairs such as the previously mentioned happenings within Uruguay and such. However, part of the reason we are currently in this war is because we stick our noses up other country's ***es way too often. We didn't need to invade Iraq. In reality, Iraq less to do with the Semptember 11th attacks than is currently publicized. President Bush saw a great opportunity because, he, like many other Americans, sees the Middle East as one giant blob of a land when it is in reality composed of many smaller countries. The us has taken on the role as being the protector of democracy. Sometimes, I will dare to say, democracy isn't the best solution to a problem. I don't think the US should be involved in Iraq in the way that it is as well as involved in other country's business in the way that it was.
Part of being the most economically prosperous and most advanced country in the world (although that's now debatable) is that you give back. The US started off giving back and helping out, but pretty soon, we were imposing a sometimes unjust system upon the world. We don't need to spread democracy, it's not necesary. I'm sure as soon as President Bush is done with Iraq, he'll start looking for other nations that run under a different form of government to label as un-godly or inhumane or whatever wording he uses to justify his actions. And, the media will support him because the media likes to make money and they do that by covering news. This would be big news and to fan the flames to them, is the same as filling their bank accounts.
It's time to pull out of Iraq. It's time to end this war. I don't hate America, in fact, I love it and so far as I'm concerned, it's the best country there is. However, we elected a dumb **** of a president he's making stupid and moronic political manevuers to save face. I don't hate the media either. I plan on continuing my career in some form of the media. However, I don't agree with the way the media portrays certain events. I am not here to burn the US or the media. The US overall....for lack of better words, just needs to chill.