Noirboy101
Member
Trespasser: you rock, man.
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Abortion
- Thread starter filmmakerfromwv
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Trespasser
Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noirboy101:
A fetus, until proven otherwise which is unlikely, is not aware of anything. Since punishable murder is the intentional extinguishing of human life, and a fetus in its early stages does not have or show those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from animals, it is not murder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Noirboy...you nailed it. Thank you.
A fetus, until proven otherwise which is unlikely, is not aware of anything. Since punishable murder is the intentional extinguishing of human life, and a fetus in its early stages does not have or show those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from animals, it is not murder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Noirboy...you nailed it. Thank you.
filmmakerfromwv
Member
Geeze, calm down noirboy101...i'm just showing my opinion, as you are too. And I respect your opinion. No need to get so deffensive. You're right about minding "your own business" but when there are the statistics that are out there, thats when I can put my 2 cents in. And I didn't say anything about being raped and having an abortion is wrong. Never said that. If someone is raped and has an abortion, I don't find it wrong. I would choose adoption above anything else, but I wouldn't condone abortion in that situation. My scenario with the man was an example. All I am saying is that I myself feel its wrong to have the abortion when they are simply wanting a life of their own and don't want to deal with that at that age. Young or old.
Trespasser, I too find it an ironic thing.
Trespasser, I too find it an ironic thing.
Wrong.
abortion Types
abortion Types
Heliotrope
Member
How can you just say "wrong"? Ther isn't any right or wrong, just people's opinions. I personally don't believe it is right, but it does have times when i would think it was okay (rape, or when someone ABSOLUTELY cannot take care of the baby). I find it a really cheap way out of a problem, when teenagers do it just so they won't have the baby. They're the ones that made the mistake, they should suffer the consiquences.
filmmakerfromwv
Member
Thank you!
Noirboy101
Member
I dunno 'bout you guys, but I doubt my mum would like me half as much if she considered me a burden forced on her at too young an age. Sex for pleasure ain't a sin, and damn it all if giving birth becomes something to be suffered at the request of the government. If you force a baby on a girl not even out of high school how many lives is that going to affect? The girl, her baby once it's born, her parents, her boyfriend, her other friends, her impressionable younger sister, her teachers, her horrified grandparents, and the bleedin' partridge in a pear tree. Her education would suffer, her family's finances would suffer, and she'd suffer. Abortion would give that girl time to sort out her life and get the education needed to provide for a baby at a later time in her life, so that she can give that baby and herself the best life she can. Damn, man, I don't know which is worse, saying sex should be punished, or saying that having a baby should be the punishment.
Hill Dawson Kane
Active Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't know which is worse, saying sex should be punished, or saying that having a baby should be the punishment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the general feeling is that it's the baby that gets punished, or rather killed, just to make mistakes easily "corrected." Sex is only punishable if you're careless about it.
I think the general feeling is that it's the baby that gets punished, or rather killed, just to make mistakes easily "corrected." Sex is only punishable if you're careless about it.
Forsakenproductions
Active Member
Most of you know I am religious, but I will try to answer this one all religious views aside.
The stupid ***** and man ***** who decided to sleep together without any thought of the future don't deserve to live. Just like calling Blacks back in the day " not human" was wrong, calling the fetus "not human" is wrong.
It is a living breathing thing, and according to the constitution has the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Why should the mother and father, who were inconsiderate enough to bring that child into the world, have the right to destroy it?
I tend to be lenient more in the case of rape. I really don't know what needs to be done about that. I haven't made up my own mind yet.
but as far as two parties willingly preforming the act to bring a fetus, they are thereby responsible for raising and caring for that fetus.
This is one of the side effects of our society coming more and more short sighted. Life is a game of chess, where every move must be planned 12-20 moves in advance.
People who have sex and don't plan ahead deserve to lose. And the fetus deserves its chance to win.
The stupid ***** and man ***** who decided to sleep together without any thought of the future don't deserve to live. Just like calling Blacks back in the day " not human" was wrong, calling the fetus "not human" is wrong.
It is a living breathing thing, and according to the constitution has the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Why should the mother and father, who were inconsiderate enough to bring that child into the world, have the right to destroy it?
I tend to be lenient more in the case of rape. I really don't know what needs to be done about that. I haven't made up my own mind yet.
but as far as two parties willingly preforming the act to bring a fetus, they are thereby responsible for raising and caring for that fetus.
This is one of the side effects of our society coming more and more short sighted. Life is a game of chess, where every move must be planned 12-20 moves in advance.
People who have sex and don't plan ahead deserve to lose. And the fetus deserves its chance to win.
Trespasser
Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Forsakenproductions:
The stupid ***** and man ***** who decided to sleep together without any thought of the future don't deserve to live. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really hope you're exaggerating there. Read that out loud.
[/QUOTE]calling the fetus "not human" is wrong. [/QUOTE]
True. If this is referring to one of my earlier comments, I would like to say that I was referring to the embryo, which, according to science, is not human.
[/QUOTE] but as far as two parties willingly preforming the act to bring a fetus, they are thereby responsible for raising and caring for that fetus. [/QUOTE]
I completely agree. When couples engage sexually to have children they are responsible for raising and caring for it. But not everyone has sex to have children. It's not just an act simply for biological purposes. And as others have pointed out, contraceptive accidents occur.
[/QUOTE] This is one of the side effects of our society coming more and more short sighted. Life is a game of chess, where every move must be planned 12-20 moves in advance.
People who have sex and don't plan ahead deserve to lose. And the fetus deserves its chance to win.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your chess analogy, but remember, a lot people (for reasons mentioned in my previous posts) don't have this luxury to plan ahead. As idealistic it is to believe that we live in a society where people control their environments and not vice-versa, it's not always the case. I wish it was, but it's not. Think about why that is, think about that cycle I was talking about in my earlier posts. I think it's a sign that our environment is beginning to control us more than we control it. If you want people to plan 12-20 moves in advance, then you need to accept that those people (who you believe deserve to lose) need to have the freedom to do so, which statistically, the majority of them don't for reasons I have already explained. I've debated on this issue so many times to know that there are flaws in my argument, but I've done so much research and I have concluded that there are more flaws on the pro-life arguments. Three years ago I was strickly against abortion. Seems logical "it's pure killing," right? In a sense yes, but if you dig deeper you can see how illogical it is to enforce a law that categorizes all abortions into one illegal act, ignoring the individual circumstances and the profound psychological consequences. We are supposed to be a country of freedom, but a lot of people who want that freedom want to take away others' freedom because of a lack of understanding. Forsaken, and a lot of other people on this post have made good counter arguments, but I've done my research in the most unbiased way I could have. But, like human nature, my arguments will not change anyone's perception on this issue. People believe what they want to believe. And that's that.
The stupid ***** and man ***** who decided to sleep together without any thought of the future don't deserve to live. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really hope you're exaggerating there. Read that out loud.
[/QUOTE]calling the fetus "not human" is wrong. [/QUOTE]
True. If this is referring to one of my earlier comments, I would like to say that I was referring to the embryo, which, according to science, is not human.
[/QUOTE] but as far as two parties willingly preforming the act to bring a fetus, they are thereby responsible for raising and caring for that fetus. [/QUOTE]
I completely agree. When couples engage sexually to have children they are responsible for raising and caring for it. But not everyone has sex to have children. It's not just an act simply for biological purposes. And as others have pointed out, contraceptive accidents occur.
[/QUOTE] This is one of the side effects of our society coming more and more short sighted. Life is a game of chess, where every move must be planned 12-20 moves in advance.
People who have sex and don't plan ahead deserve to lose. And the fetus deserves its chance to win.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your chess analogy, but remember, a lot people (for reasons mentioned in my previous posts) don't have this luxury to plan ahead. As idealistic it is to believe that we live in a society where people control their environments and not vice-versa, it's not always the case. I wish it was, but it's not. Think about why that is, think about that cycle I was talking about in my earlier posts. I think it's a sign that our environment is beginning to control us more than we control it. If you want people to plan 12-20 moves in advance, then you need to accept that those people (who you believe deserve to lose) need to have the freedom to do so, which statistically, the majority of them don't for reasons I have already explained. I've debated on this issue so many times to know that there are flaws in my argument, but I've done so much research and I have concluded that there are more flaws on the pro-life arguments. Three years ago I was strickly against abortion. Seems logical "it's pure killing," right? In a sense yes, but if you dig deeper you can see how illogical it is to enforce a law that categorizes all abortions into one illegal act, ignoring the individual circumstances and the profound psychological consequences. We are supposed to be a country of freedom, but a lot of people who want that freedom want to take away others' freedom because of a lack of understanding. Forsaken, and a lot of other people on this post have made good counter arguments, but I've done my research in the most unbiased way I could have. But, like human nature, my arguments will not change anyone's perception on this issue. People believe what they want to believe. And that's that.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noirboy101:
Sex for pleasure ain't a sin <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're talking about religios views, which it sounds like you are since you are using the word "sin," then MOST, if not all religions (aside from weird cults) would consider sex for pleasure outside of marriage a sin.
Mind you, this is but a simple factual interjection. I mean not to discuss. Just pointing that out.
Sex for pleasure ain't a sin <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're talking about religios views, which it sounds like you are since you are using the word "sin," then MOST, if not all religions (aside from weird cults) would consider sex for pleasure outside of marriage a sin.
Mind you, this is but a simple factual interjection. I mean not to discuss. Just pointing that out.
Hill Dawson Kane
Active Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And as others have pointed out, contraceptive accidents occur. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But how many accidental pregnancies are cause by these accidents? And aren't there mornign after pills and **** that can be taken, along with "fogetting" to take birth control, and ur condom breaking etc... I mean if I'm gunna jump out of a plane and my first shoot doesn't open, and I didn't have a reserve backup, would you feel sorry for me?
But how many accidental pregnancies are cause by these accidents? And aren't there mornign after pills and **** that can be taken, along with "fogetting" to take birth control, and ur condom breaking etc... I mean if I'm gunna jump out of a plane and my first shoot doesn't open, and I didn't have a reserve backup, would you feel sorry for me?
Trespasser
Member
Once again, not everyone has the privilege of obtaining those reserve backups (I've already explained why). The morning after pill is very difficult to acquire in some areas and is causing a lot controversy, and some doctors don't even prescribe birth control because of their "moral obligations."
Hill Dawson Kane
Active Member
But who would jump out of a plane without a parashute in that case?
filmmakerfromwv
Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trespasser:
and some doctors don't even prescribe birth control because of their "moral obligations." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've never heard of a doctor not prescribing birth control b/c of "moral obligations." It's their job to prescribe it. If they can't, who will?
and some doctors don't even prescribe birth control because of their "moral obligations." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've never heard of a doctor not prescribing birth control b/c of "moral obligations." It's their job to prescribe it. If they can't, who will?
Forsakenproductions
Active Member
I didn't say that all abortions should be illegal, like I said, I still go back in forth in the case of rape and other situations like that.
The way I define a human, (Which may be some of us are defining human differently, IE: Science.) is this:
If it is conceived by a man and woman, requiring a source of nutrition, it is thereby human.
Embryo, fetus, whatever stage, it is human.
And like HDK is saying: who would go through something dangerous without back up?
I wouldn't go into a boxing ring without insurance, and especially without training.
I wouldn't jump out of a plane without a reserve and primary parachute.
Having sex without planning for the worse is like going to a party, getting drunk, driving, and killing someone.
Did the driver mean to kill someone with his car?
Nope.
The couple mean to conceive during sex?
Nope.
But they are still both reponsible for their actions.
and we can change what people think. Why do you think there's an art called "persuasive arguing." (Yes, I think its an art).
I used to be hardcore against evolution. But now because someone taught me all the facts, I have come to realize that SOME change must have occured to the human race over the years. (I still don't believe the monkey thing, its too . . . weird.
)
Anyway, I digress from the main argument.
What about the child's freedom? When does he get a say in whether he lives or dies? Why do two people who screwed up get to decide that for him? He hasn't done anything wrong.
We ARE a nation of freedom. But freedom to kill a human? No.
The way I define a human, (Which may be some of us are defining human differently, IE: Science.) is this:
If it is conceived by a man and woman, requiring a source of nutrition, it is thereby human.
Embryo, fetus, whatever stage, it is human.
And like HDK is saying: who would go through something dangerous without back up?
I wouldn't go into a boxing ring without insurance, and especially without training.
I wouldn't jump out of a plane without a reserve and primary parachute.
Having sex without planning for the worse is like going to a party, getting drunk, driving, and killing someone.
Did the driver mean to kill someone with his car?
Nope.
The couple mean to conceive during sex?
Nope.
But they are still both reponsible for their actions.
and we can change what people think. Why do you think there's an art called "persuasive arguing." (Yes, I think its an art).
I used to be hardcore against evolution. But now because someone taught me all the facts, I have come to realize that SOME change must have occured to the human race over the years. (I still don't believe the monkey thing, its too . . . weird.
Anyway, I digress from the main argument.
What about the child's freedom? When does he get a say in whether he lives or dies? Why do two people who screwed up get to decide that for him? He hasn't done anything wrong.
We ARE a nation of freedom. But freedom to kill a human? No.
MeGrimlock
Member
Jeez, all of this arguing and you people still have faith in humanity. You still believe that a fetus or a child is a magic human being who won't grow up to be another freakin' burden on the world. When a woman teaches you "all the facts," then you'll understand more about birth control, how it can be ineffective, not matter at the moment, whatever. Sex is too personal for someone other than my partner to tell me what I can or can't do with it or its outcome.
Here's something I want to know, you hear stories about trashbin babies, unwanted babies thrown away in dumpsters by mothers who didn't/couldn't abort. Now, what's the bigger problem, trashbin babies or abortions? If you say abortions are worse, or that the two are even on the same level, you're priorities are so ****ed up as a human being, I can't even talk to you.
You wonder why I'm so against unwanted/wanted pregnancies and/or children? 'Cause they grow up to be just more of the same, more like you.
Props to noirboy and Trespasser.
elliott.
Yes, all of this coming from the expectant daddy.
Here's something I want to know, you hear stories about trashbin babies, unwanted babies thrown away in dumpsters by mothers who didn't/couldn't abort. Now, what's the bigger problem, trashbin babies or abortions? If you say abortions are worse, or that the two are even on the same level, you're priorities are so ****ed up as a human being, I can't even talk to you.
You wonder why I'm so against unwanted/wanted pregnancies and/or children? 'Cause they grow up to be just more of the same, more like you.
Props to noirboy and Trespasser.
elliott.
Yes, all of this coming from the expectant daddy.
Forsakenproductions
Active Member
At least I haven't given up on humanity, Grimlock. There is still hope.
Congratulations on the kid. I hope you take care of it, and train it to be a citizen that is willing to make our world a better place. But it is only through your training that it will do so.
And trashbins and abortions ARE on the same level. Either way, the baby is killed, murdered, mutilated. The only difference is that its outside the womb. Explain how that difference makes one worse then the other, Grimlock. Just try, and you'll only succeed at making yourself sound ridiculous.
And you can stop talking to me for all I care. Every where I go, stating my opinion, you for some reason feel the obligation to personally attack. Now its my turn wise ***.
I hope you and the mother raise your kid well. Keep together and stay happy. Then we won't have to worry about another kid who got drunk, went driving, and crashed into a tree and died. At least he had a chance unlike the aborted kid, right?
Congratulations on the kid. I hope you take care of it, and train it to be a citizen that is willing to make our world a better place. But it is only through your training that it will do so.
And trashbins and abortions ARE on the same level. Either way, the baby is killed, murdered, mutilated. The only difference is that its outside the womb. Explain how that difference makes one worse then the other, Grimlock. Just try, and you'll only succeed at making yourself sound ridiculous.
And you can stop talking to me for all I care. Every where I go, stating my opinion, you for some reason feel the obligation to personally attack. Now its my turn wise ***.
I hope you and the mother raise your kid well. Keep together and stay happy. Then we won't have to worry about another kid who got drunk, went driving, and crashed into a tree and died. At least he had a chance unlike the aborted kid, right?
The Company
Active Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> On average, women give at least three reasons for choosing abortion: three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities; about two-thirds say they cannot afford a child; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is it just me or does this statistic make absolutely no sense at all???
Its funny cause I just saw an episode of South Park where Kyle had to get an abortion to get the anti-christ out of him. That show rocks.
I'm not against abortion. If you are not ready for the child, then you have a right not to have it. However, if you weren't ready you probably shouldn't have got pregnant in the first place.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is it just me or does this statistic make absolutely no sense at all???
Its funny cause I just saw an episode of South Park where Kyle had to get an abortion to get the anti-christ out of him. That show rocks.
I'm not against abortion. If you are not ready for the child, then you have a right not to have it. However, if you weren't ready you probably shouldn't have got pregnant in the first place.
filmmakerfromwv
Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Forsakenproductions:
And trashbins and abortions ARE on the same level. Either way, the baby is killed, murdered, mutilated. The only difference is that its outside the womb. Explain how that difference makes one worse then the other, Grimlock. Just try, and you'll only succeed at making yourself sound ridiculous.
And you can stop talking to me for all I care. Every where I go, stating my opinion, you for some reason feel the obligation to personally attack. Now its my turn wise ***.
I hope you and the mother raise your kid well. Keep together and stay happy. Then we won't have to worry about another kid who got drunk, went driving, and crashed into a tree and died. At least he had a chance unlike the aborted kid, right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow....you just copied the words from my mouth and pasted them on here.
And trashbins and abortions ARE on the same level. Either way, the baby is killed, murdered, mutilated. The only difference is that its outside the womb. Explain how that difference makes one worse then the other, Grimlock. Just try, and you'll only succeed at making yourself sound ridiculous.
And you can stop talking to me for all I care. Every where I go, stating my opinion, you for some reason feel the obligation to personally attack. Now its my turn wise ***.
I hope you and the mother raise your kid well. Keep together and stay happy. Then we won't have to worry about another kid who got drunk, went driving, and crashed into a tree and died. At least he had a chance unlike the aborted kid, right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow....you just copied the words from my mouth and pasted them on here.
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