The Dark Knight

[karen]

It would be cliche if Ledger actually won, but he is the next great tragedy and Hollywood loves its fallen stars. Button looks great, but, with such a problematic history, I'm curious to see how it will end up. I smell hype!

 

[braininabox]

Originally posted by karen:
I'm curious to see how it will end up.

Pun intended?

 

[karen]

Zing! I did have a little chuckle there...What's The Road?

 

[techie1902]

The Road is based off of Cormac McCarthy's book (same title), and it's a post-apocalyptic story of a father and his son.

I'm really looking forward to that movie too...we actually read the book in my English class (not one of the typical "classics," that's for sure) and I really like it. It's not a happy story by any means, but I'm really excited about Viggo Mortensen playing the father.

 

[funkylikemonkey]

I am really hoping that Brad Pitt/Benjamin Button wins.

I mean there is a strong argument to respect Heath by giving him the Oscar...but the Academy also really stands for honoring originality and advancement of the art.

We'll see.

So you refuse to see The Dark Knight, but then go ahead and say Brad Pitt should win over Ledger when you haven't seen either?

 

[erizo]

i have been reading some of the comments about the dark knight, and it's funny to me to see how some of you try to put the movie and heath ledger's acting down, talking about that if he wins a oscar would be because to show respect. and how the oscars sucks; who are you to judge, you that haven't done anything yourself have nothing else to do but to hate. I'm pretty sure that if in 5 or 10 years from now one of you are lucky enough to make a movie worth of being in a movie theater and get nominate to the oscars , you will be there praying to win. "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

 

[karen]

Yes, and that goes for all the Indiana Jones or Star Wars viewers, too, who dissed those films. Teenagers in the theatre saying, "That is so lame...what a piece of crap" whatever, like they've even had a job. How arrogant of anyone to criticize the enormous effort of making a film, any film let alone a huge sequel blockbuster! But we do criticize and we do judge. To each his own taste.

 

[REDking]

What completely flawed logic. Just because they finished a film we should hold them in high praise. Bullshizz. They had 180 million dollars and made a cartoon. And please remember Nolan had an army to make this film so when you wax pathetic about his brilliance you take a shiz on all the craftsmen and women that really made this film. but hell if they can cut them out of the opening credits why not all forum talk as well.

Oscar talk for Batman is not only absurd it is so absurd that it might just happen. i just watched There Will Be Blood again and the first 20 minutes has more going for it than the last two Batman films in their entirety. It just reminds me of ridiculous yet effective hype can be when people can actually seriously think a film like Batman explores anything but your wallet.

 

[braininabox]

Originally posted by funkylikemonkey:
So you refuse to see The Dark Knight, but then go ahead and say Brad Pitt should win over Ledger when you haven't seen either?

I wasn't really making any judgment calls. I was simply hoping that Brad Pitt fulfills my hopes and delivers a powerful Oscar-worthy performance. I can't decide anything about Heath Ledger's performance since I haven't seen the movie. I was just stating that The Academy rarely chooses to care about the summer popcorn flicks.

 

[FarhanAli]

I'm surprised by the backlash in this thread. It's funny how "film people" on this forum seem to hate it but the general audience seems to love it. I don't think you're going to get too far as a filmmaker if you disagree so violently with a mainstream audience.

Both of these Batman films have been brilliant.

 

[techie1902]

It's all a matter of opinion...

"It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." ~Bertrand Russell

 

[karen]

RedKing:

I applaud the effort and risks these filmmakers take. Are you saying they're not in charge of the army of helpers and they're not the ones the public ultimately lauds or vilifies? I think we're past hype when millions of people express a positive opinion about a movie experience. There's an audience out there for you, too...

 

[Roy Hatts]

I don't think I've ever seen a collection of more misguided people in my life.

and it's funny to me to see how some of you try to put the movie and heath ledger's acting down, talking about that if he wins a oscar would be because to show respect. and how the oscars sucks; who are you to judge, you that haven't done anything yourself have nothing else to do but to hate. I'm pretty sure that if in 5 or 10 years from now one of you are lucky enough to make a movie worth of being in a movie theater and get nominate to the oscars , you will be there praying to win. "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

What? So now we aren't allowed to critique a film because we've never made a hit summer blockbuster? What are you ****ing stupid? And if the Oscars are your ultimate goal in filmmaking, quit. Yes, some of us aren't striving for an Oscar and don't give a **** about awards or making money. Maybe you do, and that's fine, but the whole thing sickens me. And if you think everyone's a slave to the Oscars, I'll give you two great examples of people who have won and didn't accept the awards because they don't care: George C. Scott and Woody Allen.

How arrogant of anyone to criticize the enormous effort of making a film, any film let alone a huge sequel blockbuster!

This statement would be great as sarcasm, but if we didn't criticize films and art, we'd get nowhere. We'd blindly accept every piece of trash that comes out, like White Chicks or In the Name of the King, and great films wouldn't be made.

I don't think you're going to get too far as a filmmaker if you disagree so violently with a mainstream audience.

Once again, this philosophy is sad. Do you make films simply to cater to the "mainstream" audience? I have news for you: Chris Nolan didn't. Check out Memento or even The Dark Knight- despite being a big blockbuster a lot of it contains unconventional stuff for a superhero film.

 

[karen]

Hatts:

I'm not saying we're arrogant to criticize films. Constructive or thoughtful insights are what the artistic output encourages. I'm saying people who dismiss a film singularly aren't giving any credit to the process.

 

[braininabox]

(Hatts, I do agree with you, but please refrain from making personal attacks.)

I definitely think "pleasing the mainstream audience" is what keeps a lot of good films from being made. Sometimes the best stories are not very marketable, and so you end up with studio execs recutting and reshooting the movie to make it more profitable. (Dune is the first one that comes to mind...maybe even the recent Hancock?)

I also can definitely see were Karen is coming from, as far as respect for the accomplishment and process...

I definitely see where Karen is coming from,

 

[FarhanAli]

Once again, this philosophy is sad. Do you make films simply to cater to the "mainstream" audience? I have news for you: Chris Nolan didn't. Check out Memento or even The Dark Knight- despite being a big blockbuster a lot of it contains unconventional stuff for a superhero film.

No, that's not quite what I meant. Unless you are creating something purely for artistic value you need to make films that can connect with audiences. A lot of the attitudes in this thread boil down to, "I'm not going to watch it or like it because Batman is stupid" which is completely nonsensical to me. Even if you don't like the franchise or don't like superhero films you should take the time to study something so significant like this. Of course you don't create something simply to cater to the mainstream, but its a bad disconnect between artest/viewer when the artists on this site find the movie to be dreadful while literally millions of people find this movie to be absolutely amazing.

 

[Mike Jones of Green Sky Productions]

You know what... i do have to agree that the "film student" community is pretty harsh when it comes to anything successful. If you ask me sometimes even one of those multi million dollar blockbusters "just for making money" actually end up being pretty effin awesome. IE Bad Boys 2, Armageddon, Transformers... hmmm perhaps i have an underlying love for Michael Bay who just so happens to be hated by a **** load of people on here.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it always cracks me up when us "film guys" are so against these movie trends, that without even knowing it we start a trend of not liking films that arent foreign or that only play at select theaters. That used to be me too... over the years Ive learned to respect both. Hell even right now sitting on top of my dvd player is "Into the wild" right next to Transformers. Im rambling...

 

[REDking]

Originally posted by karen:
I think we're past hype when millions of people express a positive opinion about a movie experience.

By that standard I guess David Cook (American Idol) is as important as John Lennon.

Millions of people can in fact be morons.

 

[braininabox]

Ironically enough for a guy who hates Hollywood blockbusters...I actually really like Michael Bay/Transformers.

But I think thats because most people just accept his films as entertainment and don't become obsessed with them or blow them out of proportion. On the other hand, people constantly informing me about their level of support for Harvey Dent and asking me whether I do or do not want to see a magic trick got really old, really fast and was pretty much a turnoff for me.

 

[Heliotrope]

I don't hate this movie, I rather enjoyed most of it. But it really left me feeling unsatisfied and cheated. I felt cheated by Two-Face's lackluster and nearly pointless 20 minutes that really just made the movie drag and lose all of it's steam. I felt cheated by the fact that it really didn't give the Joker the ending he deserved (some of that is me knowing that this is the end for him though, and that he won't be back next time). The fact that Rachel died and I didn't feel sorry for her at all because her character was unsatisfying, and also if Batman didn't seem to care why should? It annoyed me that they would throw out little pieces of information and not follow up on them (i.e. Alfred saying that the Batsuit wasn't as bullet or dog proof).

It was entertaining over all, but for me, except for the some of the Joker parts, I was actually more entertained by The Incredible Hulk, which is sad to me cause Batman is so much more badass than the jolly green giant. I really wanted to like it, and thought I would, cause how could it go wrong Christopher Nolan manning another Batman? Overall I really think it was just poorly written, too much info trying to be crammed into it for it's own good. I really wonder how well the Joker was written cause he was the only really compelling character, or if it was just that Heath injected all the life into him.